Used Outboards

[rcnight]

Been doing some research on used outboards for my 23 refurb. Found this posted on another boating site. Don't have any brand loyalty. Would appreciate your comments. Thanks

Yamaha HPDI-------1999-2001ish--------disaster
Yamaha 4 Stroke---------2002-2007ish--------great but exhaust corrosion on some engines(not all), Balancer issues on inline motors(not all), oil seal issues............not all had this Im not running away from these motors.
Yamaha 250 4stroke 2006-2007---------------1st run of variable camshaft.............Major Lower Unit Problems(Suprised Nobody mentions this) Notice how 2008 models and up have an extra colling intake on lower unit??????
Yamaha 250-300hp HPDI----------------ABSOLUTE DISASTER. Almost on par with Evinrude FICHT. I have seen so many people come through our shop with these motors blown.
Honda 4 Strokes------------Just not enough of them around to really know but to be honest................I have not heard any consistant bad things. I would own one but Lack of used parts may scare me.
Evinrude Ficht (first generation ETEC........yes I said that)-------------disaster
Suzuki 4strokes 2000-2007ish-------------great engines but corrosion..............typical Japanese
Nissan TLDI------------not enough of those around to know for sure............some have blown up
Mercury Verado Gen 1------------had issues---Lower Unit failures, Supercharger Failures, etc
Mercury optimax 1998-2000------Disaster............Opti BOMB
Mercury Optimax 2002-2005-------------Much Better
Mercury Optimax From 2006 to today------------Awesome
Mercury Verado Gen 2 (2008ish and up)-----------Awesome. People seem very happy with them.
Etec------------------Fine but this was basically a second gen Ficht( have fun with that one guys)
Yamaha HPDI made in last 5 years or so---------------Fine
Yamaha 4 Strokes Made within the last 7 years or so------------------fine I have not heard much about the corrsion.(time will tell I guess)
Suzukis made within last 5 years...................excellent.

Moral of the story.........................Motors that were made at around 1998-2002 (DFI) were basically the guinney pigs. That was an "experimental" time with all this new techonogly.

[flyingfrizzle]

Originally Posted by rcnight

Been doing some research on used outboards for my 23 refurb. Found this posted on another boating site. Don't have any brand loyalty. Would appreciate your comments. Thanks


Yamaha 250-300hp HPDI----------------ABSOLUTE DISASTER.
The early 300's were known to go pop for sure

Honda 4 Strokes------------Just not enough of them around to really know but to be honest................I have not heard any consistant bad things. I would own one but Lack of used parts may scare me.
The Hondas are used by many commercial fishers in my area with tons of hours and also the coastguard uses them with success. Seen tons of hours on these but not many service centers in my area and in some areas

Evinrude Ficht (first generation ETEC........yes I said that)-------------disaster
So true, but if you can buy them cheep you can part out on ebay and make a killing
Suzuki 4strokes 2000-2007ish-------------great engines but corrosion..............typical Japanese
Seems like there was corrosion issues if used in the salt

Mercury Verado Gen 1------------had issues---Lower Unit failures, Supercharger Failures, etc
Defiantly needs the upgraded HD lower

Mercury optimax 1998-2000------Disaster............Opti BOMB
Early opti can be made to run fine, a computer flash and a newer style air pump and you will be basically the same as the newer ones. A few changes can make them reliable.

Mercury Optimax 2002-2005-------------Much Better
Mercury Optimax From 2006 to today------------Awesome
Mercury Verado Gen 2 (2008ish and up)-----------Awesome. People seem very happy with them.

Yamaha HPDI made in last 5 years or so---------------Fine
Yamaha 4 Strokes Made within the last 7 years or so------------------fine I have not heard much about the corrsion.(time will tell I guess)
The 350s had flywheel issues

Suzukis made within last 5 years...................excellent.

Moral of the story.........................Motors that were made at around 1998-2002 (DFI) were basically the guinney pigs. That was an "experimental" time with all this new technology.
Like most things I don't like to own the first year change of anything, wait till they get it right on the 2nd gen or see how they do first before jumping in on a new style anything

my 2 cent

[Old'sCool]

International Marine had FLIBS pricing for twin Suzi 200's at $23,700 plus controls, 6 yr warranty. If I were in the market I would look hard at this one.

[kmoose]

Originally Posted by Old'sCool

International Marine had FLIBS pricing for twin Suzi 200's at $23,700 plus controls, 6 yr warranty. If I were in the market I would look hard at this one.

300 APs can still be gotten for $18k rigged. Hard to beat with more than ample hp for a 23.

[Topflitegraphics]

OK - so what recommendation would you have for a 20' MA getting a bracket? I would love to go new but have almost 175K in medical debt now from my heart attack I need to buy one as cheap as possible. (yes, that is the real number the hospital wants from just 33 hr stay)

[manitunc]

Originally Posted by Topflitegraphics

OK - so what recommendation would you have for a 20' MA getting a bracket? I would love to go new but have almost 175K in medical debt now from my heart attack I need to buy one as cheap as possible. (yes, that is the real number the hospital wants from just 33 hr stay)

there are plenty of used 150-200 mercury optimax around as everyone wants a four stroke instead of a lighter, more powerful, better fuel mileage dfi two stroke. If you are getting new, the 150 merc 4 stroke is a no brainer. with a bracket, you need to consider weight.

If you dont care about mileage, the merc efi is a good choice also.

yes, hospitals are crazy. I negotiated 50% off on a similar bill for a similar amount of time for a client of mine. But you have to be able to pay. They will sell that debt to a factoring company or other debt collector for pennies on the dollar

[Topflitegraphics]

manitunc - are the opti's as quiet as the etecs? I am leaning towards getting one of those since they are light, efficient, and quiet

As far as the hospital bills go, trying to negotiate they are being a pain in the you know what. We have been asking for a detailed bill and the only thing we have gotten is the summary with the crazy bottom line. We tried to negotiate before I even signed out but, of course, the person I needed to talk with was not available...

[Fr. Frank]

Originally Posted by Topflitegraphics

... have almost 175K in medical debt now from my heart attack I need to buy one as cheap as possible. (yes, that is the real number the hospital wants from just 33 hr stay)

I'm a parish priest of a very small congregation, and I, too, went looking for the best I could find in a smaller motor for my '88 18' Seacraft. I ended up getting a 2010 Etec 90 with under 200 hours for just $3K.

My (then) teen-aged daughter had gynecological surgery that her Dr's office assured us had been pre-authorized by the insurance company. They had, in fact only submitted the paperwork for authorization, and had not received a reply before the surgery took place. The insurance company rejected the claim after the surgery saying it was "not medically necessary".

We went through the appeals process and it was still rejected. Both the surgeon and anesthesiologist waived their bills, and the radiologist agreed to take just the copay as payment.

The hospital sent us a bill for over $80K. After the failed negotiations with the insurance company, we went to negotiate with the hospital, and they ended up accepting $1400 as full payment, which was slightly more than they would have gotten from the insurance company if the claim had been approved originally.

Being somewhat tenacious, I then submitted the receipt for my payment to the hospital to my insurance company for reimbursement, along with a copy of the Dr.'s original documentation saying the surgery was medically necessary. I was reimbursed for 80% of the $1400. All in all, the negotiations took almost a year.

[Topflitegraphics]

Originally Posted by Fr. Frank

I'm a parish priest of a very small congregation, and I, too, went looking for the best I could find in a smaller motor for my '88 18' Seacraft. I ended up getting a 2010 Etec 90 with under 200 hours for just $3K.

My (then) teen-aged daughter had gynecological surgery that her Dr's office assured us had been pre-authorized by the insurance company. They had, in fact only submitted the paperwork for authorization, and had not received a reply before the surgery took place. The insurance company rejected the claim after the surgery saying it was "not medically necessary".

We went through the appeals process and it was still rejected. Both the surgeon and anesthesiologist waived their bills, and the radiologist agreed to take just the copay as payment.

The hospital sent us a bill for over $80K. After the failed negotiations with the insurance company, we went to negotiate with the hospital, and they ended up accepting $1400 as full payment, which was slightly more than they would have gotten from the insurance company if the claim had been approved originally.

Being somewhat tenacious, I then submitted the receipt for my payment to the hospital to my insurance company for reimbursement, along with a copy of the Dr.'s original documentation saying the surgery was medically necessary. I was reimbursed for 80% of the $1400. All in all, the negotiations took almost a year.

Thanks for the encouragement. Believe it or not, so far we have gotten the 175K down to about 10K through the same type of persistence - my wife really wants me to be able to start enjoying my boat & life in general more (especially now), so she has been after the Dr's about the bills

Still going to be looking for a used outboard once I get the transom finished though since now it looks like I might be in for a total knee replacement as well

[Bigshrimpin]

There are weak points on every motor. Educating yourself on these common issues will help you to know what to look for when shopping. In my experience there are a few absolutes.

1. ALL MOTORS have weak points.
2. Most people don't sell motors that are running perfectly.
3. Buying used engines is ALWAYS a crap shoot.
4. You can test for somethings (compression, spark, codes, hours), but one of the best tests is a 20 - 30 minute ride through the full RPM range which is not always possible.
5. internal corrosion is not always easy to detect.
6. Fuel restrictions causes a LOT of 2 strokes to pop and that's not the fault of a motor as much as their owners would like to think. Common causes for fuel restrictions are USCG saftey nipples, screens in fuel pickup, filters, and crappy hoses. It doesn't take long to kill a 2 stroke from a fuel restriction.


2.6L Hpdi's (150,175,200) were very reliable. I am not aware or any major issues with the early years.

3.0L Opti's (225, 250) compressors go bad after a while. A local tow BoatUS captain up here carry spares optimax compressors and can change them on the water.

2002 - 2004 Fichts were good especially the 250's. After bombardier bought them they worked out a lot of the problems. There were issues with electronics in computer that can be addressed by DFI. Most ETEC's are fairly reliable.