23 Sceptre OB on transom vs 23 CC with OB on bracket - impressions.

[whistler]

I have owned a '78 Sceptre 23 with a transom mounted outboard for 5 years. I just purchased a '78 23 CC with a bracket mounted outboard. Since questions about adding a bracket are pretty common, I wanted to share my impressions of the handling/performance differences in these 2 boats.

Boat 1: '78 Sceptre 23 with a Mercury 200 EFI 25" on the transom. The boat is largely original, without any structural modifications. Everything is in its original location. No hardtop. Boat has 12x12 tabs. Prop is a Mercury Rev 4.
Performance/handling impressions: This boat is awesome It jumps on plane quickly with relatively little bow rise. Runs flat, seems to really like 30MPH+ when conditions allow. With tabs down, it can stay on plane down to 12-13MPH for when it getts snotty and you need to slow down for comfort. Definitely has the legendary Seacraft ride. Almost always lands soft. Does not exhibit any weird handling in either head or following sea. Is easy to handle around the dock with good steering and response in both forward and reverse. The windshield provides excellent weather protection and the cuddy is great for dry storage. The huge "dance floor" in the back is great for trolling and ok for bottom fishing/live baiting.

Boat 2: '78 Sceptre 23 with a full transom and a Yamaha 250HPDI on a Hermco single bracket. Boat was redone some time ago and while the layout remains largely unchanged, it is probably lighter due to the use of foam for the sole and a smaller console. Boat has a small T-top with fiberglass top. The fuel tank may have been moved forward in the hull, but I am not yet certain. No trim tabs (yet). Prop is a Mercury Mirage.
Performance/handling impressions: Getting on plane is slower and with much more pronounced bow rise. The acceleration is probably the same or better, but since the boat planes at a higher speed, it takes longer to get on plane. Likes to run 30MPH+ as it really levels out. I did not specifically try to find the minimum planing speed but suspect it is around 18-20MPH. Once on plane, the ride is great. Lands soft, and the more rearward position of the helm in comparison to the Sceptre makes for a smoother ride for the captain. Around the dock, it definitely requires more throttle in reverse and is a little more lazy to turn - but not by much. The CC layout is very versatile and great for bottom fishing/live baiting. The CC layout also gives you a feeling of being closer to the water. Of course that goes both ways, and there is less protection from wind or spray.

Overall:
The change of CG when adding a bracket is readily felt and impacts performance at slow speeds. Above 25MPH, the boats feel very similar. To be fair, the Sceptre is set-up better with a 4 blade prop and tabs. I will change the prop on the CC and add tabs, and expect the boat to plane better.
Of course, the Sceptre has more weight up front so its not an apples to apples comparison. In addition, the Mercury 200EFI on the Sceptre is also much lighter compared to the 250HPDI. Interestingly, for the boating that I do, the 50 extra horsepower are not immediately felt. Yes, the top speed of the CC is higher (48MPH vs 41MPH for the Scpetre), and yes the 200 EFI has to turn more RPM at cruise - but both boats feel perfectly happy at 30MPH where I find myself most of the time when conditions allow. I think the new Mercury V6 225 would be about perfect for a repower.
The bracket is really nice for improving cockpit space, reducing motor noise in the cockpit and is very convenient as a swimming platform.

[uncleboo]

You have 2 fine SeaCrafts there!

[Capt Chuck]

Who did the rebuild on the green CC?
I would like to see more pictures, especially that hidden console
Could this one be another candidate of the GUCCI STAMP?

[whistler]

Thank you.

The green Seacraft was redone by SMS Customs in FL in 2008. As I understand it, SMS no longer does custom work. The boat was redone in a very "gucciesque" style with emphasis on sandbar and not fishing. That said, the underlying structural work appears to be very well done: the sole is vacuum bagged foam, the transom is solid as a rock, and the attention to detail is not just skin deep. I do not know for sure, but it appears that the bracket and maybe the transom redo were done by Hermco. I plan to tone down the "gucci" and add back the fishing and utility

[strick]

Originally Posted by Capt Chuck

Who did the rebuild on the green CC?
I would like to see more pictures, especially that hidden console
Could this one be another candidate of the GUCCI STAMP?

First thing I did was right click and save..

Originally Posted by whistler

I have owned a '78 Sceptre 23 with a transom mounted outboard for 5 years. I just purchased a '78 23 CC with a bracket mounted outboard. Since questions about adding a bracket are pretty common, I wanted to share my impressions of the handling/performance differences in these 2 boats.

So which do you prefer? it's kinda hard comparing the CC to the sceptre... the CC will always feel like a better ride better due to operator positioning while underway...then throw in the bracket on the cc and it would put you right about in the middle of the sceptre where the step down is into the cabin..

I've always said my old 23cc handled better without the bracket..pluses and minuses for everything we do...

Nice Boat!

strick

[kmoose]

I had it both ways on my Tsunami and his comparison is pretty fair. Trim response, planing and overall handling is better with the motor on the transom but speed, fuel economy, room and the benefit of a closed transom is a nice trade off with a bracket.

[whistler]

So far, I prefer the layout of the CC and love the extra room, and convenience offered by the closed transom. I am now sold on engine brackets - when done correctly. So far, the Sceptre performs better but to be fair - I have spent time setting it up correctly. I raised the engine, changed out the prop, and added tabs. Going from a Mercury Enertia Plus to a Rev 4 did wonders for the Sceptre! I am hoping that by doing the same with the CC, I can improve the hole shot and low speed performance/attitude.

[Snookerd]

I’ve had a bracketed 23SF and I currently have a transom mounted 23 Sceptre. I definitely enjoyed the speed and safety of the closed transom with the bracketed boat. Two observations:

1. Being caught offshore in a tight 3 ft gulfstream chop with the transom mounted sceptre, I was able to keep the bow up at planning speed which was only 12-13 MPH. That low speed made the ride easy even though the sea was picking up.

2. Also, a year ago when we crossed over the Bahamas, I spent close to three hours driving with Don V (transom mounted 23SF) and Briguy (Bracketed 23SF). The running attitudes were noticeably different.

[gofastsandman]

Originally Posted by whistler

So far, I prefer the layout of the CC and love the extra room, and convenience offered by the closed transom. I am now sold on engine brackets - when done correctly. So far, the Sceptre performs better but to be fair - I have spent time setting it up correctly. I raised the engine, changed out the prop, and added tabs. Going from a Mercury Enertia Plus to a Rev 4 did wonders for the Sceptre! I am hoping that by doing the same with the CC, I can improve the hole shot and low speed performance/attitude.

Yes you can. People always talk about pitch, rpms, and wot which is all fine and good,
but, prop design is sooooo important for our hulls.

When I first got my lil `89 Slacker 20 with a 150 carb rude 375 lbs on her transom, I could not plane below 18-20 at all. Trimmed in, the bow would rise quickly and I would lose the horizon.

The poor thing porpoised to beat the band. The prop was a 14.75x17p Mich. Match.
A 3 bl house mouse eared prop. I used to see a 20 Seafari I/O almost every time going
out LWI with a single? mom and 2 cute little kids. I would have to pass her as I launched
and pounded my way out the cut. She was holding 12 easily. I was not happy at all.

Big Shrimpin` suggested I try a Mirage + so I found a 15.380x17p.

What happened in the middle of the night?
It was not Christmas. I did not awaken to three ghosts.

Someone had stolen my boat, taken her to Santa`s workshop
and returned her without me being any the wiser.

I hit the binnie and whoa. Very little bow rise. My ass lifted and she just screwed.
No porpoising. Someone had played a trick on me and I was going to find the elf
who was responsible for these shenanigans pronto Tonto.

Denny and I tested many props shortly thereafter. Apollo 4 bl 14.75 x 20,
PT ofs 4 bl 15x15, and the Mirage +, were among the standouts.

76 Red suggested a SST 1 3bl many moons ago. I shrugged this off as not being
serious at all. I now run a 15x16p and can hold plane at 2700 rpm easily.
12 mph all day. I wonder if this is part of the 2 stroke factory exhaust design.

[Fr. Frank]

Originally Posted by gofastsandman

Big Shrimpin` suggested I try a Mirage + so I found a 15.380x17p.

Denny and I tested many props shortly thereafter. Apollo 4 bl 14.75 x 20,
PT ofs 4 bl 15x15, and the Mirage +, were among the standouts.

76 Red suggested a SST 1 3bl many moons ago. I shrugged this off as not being
serious at all. I now run a 15x16p and can hold plane at 2700 rpm easily.
12 mph all day. I wonder if this is part of the 2 stroke factory exhaust design.

I get ya' Sandy. On my previous Seafari, I started with a 4B 16P over-hub cleaver on a B&B'd XR Merc (prop came with motor). Motor had big 4.75" gearcase, 1.65 gear ratio with a nose-cone and low water pickup. Top speed was about 44 kts (not mph) at 6100 rpm, but fell off plane below 16kts, and very poor holeshot. No trim tabs (Threw a hell of a rooster tail above 40, though).

I switched to a 3B Mirage 17P. Top speed was 42 knots, would hold plane down to about 13 kts and got on plane very quickly.

Got a chance to talk with the guys at PowerTech and bought an OFS 4B 15.5x15P. 1 knot slower than the Mirage, but even better holeshot, much better low-speed control and would hold plane down to 10 kts. Max RPM fell to 5650.

After a couple of months and lots of emails, I traded that back to PT for a one-off custom-built (read non-returnable) Power Tech OFS 3B 15.25Dx16.5P with extended tip cupping because I ran with my motor mount as high as possible. Top speed was now 46 knots at 6050 rpms with light fuel and one person on a cold day. When I put the bimini up and loaded the family top speed was about 42-44 kts, depending on conditions. Time to plane about the same as the Mirage, and would hold plane down to 11 kts in calm water. Ran best in a light chop.
Man, I LOVED that prop!

Swapped the Merc XR motor for a 90hp Opti in '06. Top speed fell to 34kts, but fuel economy went from 1.9 NMPG, to almost 6 NMPG average. Partly because I wasn't tempted to run at 5800-6000 rpms all the time.