Seafari Scuppers and cap leaks

[McGillicuddy]

Took the Seafari out with another fishing partner for another test. Like my previous passenger, he'd never been exposed to the SeaCraft ride. He has a Whaler Revenge and a Carolina Classic 25 and is an excellent boater. He really liked it but suggested I need more cup holders, heh, heh.

I showed him the through hull scupper problem (leaks and aft weight wet feet issue). Told him to put the plugs in and stay dry. The only thing that bothered him about the boat was the scupper issue.

Personally, I think the through hull scupper design is silly but, whatever. Before I change the tubes out, I ask:

1. Is there any reason why I shouldn't fill the scupper holes and glass over. Has anyone taken this approach or am I REALLY asking for trouble?

2. The bilge drain tube should probably also be replaced as a chunk of the flare is missing. Is there a common way to remove these (and the scupper tubes)? Good source for the brass tubes or better options?

3. When reinstalling scupper tubes or bilge drain am I just going to coat the holes and tubes with 3M 5200 and slide them in & then use one of those Moeller flanging tools to flare and seal? I think maybe Bushwacker made his own - got a picture or recipe for that Denny?

4. I noticed a bit of wetness on the carpet right at the cap seam in the cuddy. Looks like a chore. Is it? What does that take to seal?

Thanks,
--McGill

[JohnB]

Fix any leaks in the tubes on the scuppers, then install rabed scupper cuvers with the ping pong balls inside.
The wetness in the cabin is from water getting in under the rub rail. Take the rub rail off, take the screws out that join the cap, put 5200 in the gap, then put the screws and rub rail back in.
9 out of 10 SeaCrafts have the EXACT problem. SeaCrafts are not perfect, but they are awsome.

[McGillicuddy]

John, thanks for the feedback. The scuppers are vertical thru-hull style, is there a Rabud variation for that? I've only seen the Rabud set up on horizontal scuppers that run out the transom.

Roger that on the cap repair.

[fdheld34]

Gillie, I have never seen a set up for thru hull scuppers..here is a discussion that I found regarding converting from thru hulls to thru transom. I might do this variation/modification in future as well. I have never been bold enough or have gone out enough times yet to pull my thru hull plugs.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/forum...r=62803&Forum=,,,All_Forums,,,&Words=scuppers&Searchpage=3&Limit =25&Main=62729&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&dat erange=1&newerval=4&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertyp e=&bodyprev=#Post62803


Also I know there are 45/90 degree ball scuppers (used mainly for below waterline)that you can mount in the deck hole (after modification) after removing your original thru hull pipe, then run hose/pipe to rear and hook up to thru transom fitting. here is one example..did quick google search to give you an idea or another alternative. http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=56

-Fred

[rhody98]

Also I know there are 45/90 degree ball scuppers (used mainly for below waterline)that you can mount in the deck hole (after modification) after removing your original thru hull pipe, then run hose/pipe to rear and hook up to thru transom fitting. here is one example..did quick google search to give you an idea or another alternative. http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=56

Anybody use this particular product and what are pros/cons?

[Bushwacker]

1. Is there any reason why I shouldn't fill the scupper holes and glass over. Has anyone taken this approach or am I REALLY asking for trouble?

2. The bilge drain tube should probably also be replaced as a chunk of the flare is missing. Is there a common way to remove these (and the scupper tubes)? Good source for the brass tubes or better options?

3. When reinstalling scupper tubes or bilge drain am I just going to coat the holes and tubes with 3M 5200 and slide them in & then use one of those Moeller flanging tools to flare and seal? I think maybe Bushwacker made his own - got a picture or recipe for that Denny?

4. I noticed a bit of wetness on the carpet right at the cap seam in the cuddy. Looks like a chore. Is it? What does that take to seal?

Hey Gillie, here's some comments on your questions . . .

1. Don Herman said a frequent mod he did was to plug the vertical scuppers and run 'em out thru the transom using PVC pipe and the Raybud check valves. The only problem I had with that is the plumbing that would have to run thru the baitwell and thru the storage area under stbd seat. It's already hard enough to remove that battery over near the chine, so decided to leave 'em alone. I just leave the plugs in or use the vortex check valve plugs when I need to frequently hose off the deck after diving, fishing, etc. If I was to redo the boat, I'd raise the deck and keep the drains in same location, but use right angle fittings to run them out the transom and use the Moesly idea of crossing the lines so stbd side drains out port side, etc.

2. I'd definitely replace that transom drain, as it could quickly rot your transom if it's not well sealed. Same goes for the scupper tubes because if they aren't sealed to the hull, they'll cause the wood blocks they're in to rot out, which makes subsequent repair more difficult in that area. Those brass tubes are pretty thin and easy to remove. The first time I think I did it the hard way by using a hacksaw to cut thru the length of the tube. The easy way is to just use a hammer and screwdriver on the outside, and hit the flare from the side to buckle the tube and then you can push out the tube. If they're as old as mine were, they're probably pretty brittle and will come out in pieces! I ordered new tubes from the local Boat Owners Warehouse store - they got 'em overnight. Another option is to replace 'em with PVC which I think is what Big Shrimpin did. Only problem with that is you end up with a smaller diameter drain, and I decided that if I ever took a breaking wave over the transom, I'd want all the flow area in those scuppers that I could get!

3. When you put the new tubes in, I guess 5200 is ok for the transom tube if wood is solid, but if the there's any rot around the scupper tubes like I had, it's just a band-aid that will eventually fail! I had replaced my scupper tubes once before, years ago before 5200 existed, maybe early 80's! I used Life Caulk polysulfide, which is pretty good stuff that will cure underwater, but it eventually leaked and there was 1/4 - 1/2" of rot in the wood block around the tubes. I dug out most of the rot, dried it out with alcohol, used Git-rot on the wood that was left, filled the cavity with thickened epoxy and then redrilled the hole (did a post a year or two ago with photos showing how I used some PVC and a wood dowel to create a pilot hole). I did use 5200 around the tubes this time, but even if the tube corrodes and leaks, it's now surrounded by solid epoxy, so water can't leak into bilge. As for flaring the tubes, I had some 1/2" drive air tool sockets with a pretty good taper on them, so I used a threaded rod with nuts and washers and the socket to get the flare started, and then finished it with a ball peen hammer. Some guys have said you need to heat the brass to anneal it before flaring, but I didn't do that and didn't have any problems. The tubes are already flared on one end and I would think they would already have to be in the annealed condition to do that.

4. You're learning about that Seafari pretty quick! I didn't discover the leaks thru the rub rail till my first Bahama trip! After a 10 hr/160 mile run to Green Turtle, EVERYTHING in the cabin was soaked - sort of like spraying a hose in there every time I punched into a 3' sea! Thank goodness we didn't stay on the boat that trip! Don't know if the rub rail had been replaced before or if rivets came out, but when I pulled it off I found 2X more holes than screws! After filling the extra holes with Marine Tex, I replaced the aluminum rail with a vinyl rub rail I bought from SeaCraft, the type used on the 23 with the inverted U-shape built into the bottom. That rail is a great spray deflector, but when you punch into a big head sea, the water tries to tear it off, and on the next trip I still had trouble with some of the sheet metal screws backing out! I replaced them with #10 machine screws with washers and nylock nuts, and it never moved after that!

You're making good progress! It took me several years and 2-3 Bahama trips to get mine sorted out (and I'm STILL finding stuff I want to change!) Guess that's the nature of boats! Denny

[McGillicuddy]

Fred, Denny, Thanks again for the feedback.

Everything I'm learning is in large part attributed to the wealth of knowledge shared by those who've preceded my interest in this great little boat design. So thanks to all of you!

The cap leak is not a gusher so I probably wouldn't have noticed the leak had it not been for the gray i/o carpet in the cuddy. Maybe I'll keep it as a water alarm of sorts... Now a few more questions...

I'm going to presume the idea of simply eliminating self-bailing through-hull scuppers is a potentially dangerous idea.

I'd love to try the cris-cross scupper as that is a most elegant solution. Heck of a lot easier in the build mode, however.

When I change out the drain tube, should I stick with the brass tube design or switch to a garboard type with a threaded plug?

Does the center part of(apparently 2-piece) vinyl rub rail pop out or does it need to slide out?

Regarding the "vortex", does anyone think an inline check valve would serve the purpose, kind of like a jiggler siphon valve?

Thanks again for the extra detail on ? #3, Denny.

--Gillie

[fdheld34]

I'm going to presume the idea of simply eliminating self-bailing through-hull scuppers is a potentially dangerous idea.

Gillie, I had a 1987 Chris Craft Seahawk that had deck drains. The seawater would just drain into the bilge and then I would have to rely on my bilge pumps to pump the water out. When fishing etc. I was constantly opening up the hatch to look inside the bilge to see if the water was filling up and always looking over the side to see if bilge pump was pumping water. I also had a bilge alarm....I hated that feeling!!In my opinion I would not eliminate the self bailing thru hull scuppers especially on the Seafari. At least now you can get on plane an evacuate the water from cockpit. If you eliminated the thru hulls on the Seafari and glassed in holes on deck I would think the water would have no place to go..you might have to use a manual pump to pump water off deck. If you left deck drains and glassed in hull openings, then you would have the same problem I did with the Chris Craft.

When I change out the drain tube, should I stick with the brass tube design or switch to a garboard type with a threaded plug?

When my transom was rebuilt they installed a brass tube and utilized the expansion drain plug on the outside. I went ahead and purchased a garboard plug and the back flange fit right inside of the brass tube. Installed with 5200 and screws. I would rather be able to screw the drain plug in instead of relying on expansion.

Regarding the rub rail...I had to rescrew my rubrail on my old Speedcraft after I rubbed up against a piling. I was able to just undo the two end screws and pull the middle channel away from the outer channel. The insert was flexible enough that I did not have to slide it back in/out starting at the entry point. If your insert is not as pliable, you might have to slide it in/out..plus you will save your fingertips some grief when trying to push and work insert back into place.

Oh, again thanks for info on add a battery!!!
-Fred

[lost2a6]

My scuppers have been glassed up on my Seavette and I'm glad. I don't worry at all. I have 2 2000 pumps on 2 auto switches. On the self bailing boats what if a hose comes off or the plastic through hull breaks? On my boat with it sitting so low in the stern I would prefer not to have self bailing. I have a friend who is in the salvage business and he said that 80% of the smaller boats that he has raised (25 and smaller) have been due to the self bailing decks sinking the boats.

[Bushwacker]

When I change out the drain tube, should I stick with the brass tube design or switch to a garboard type with a threaded plug?

Does the center part of(apparently 2-piece) vinyl rub rail pop out or does it need to slide out?

Regarding the "vortex", does anyone think an inline check valve would serve the purpose, kind of like a jiggler siphon valve?

Gillie - The screw-type plugs are fine for the transom drain. Don uses a real nice SS type on the Hermco bracket that has an O-ring on it. Years ago we had a rash of boat sinkings in North Palm where some kids with not enough to do went down the Earman river yanking transom drain plugs out of boats in the water! I usually install my plug from the inside if I'm gonna leave the boat in the water overnight for that reason! A plug that requires a wrench to remove would stop that sort of mischief!

The heavy vinyl rub rail I have, which I believe was OEM on the 23's, has an insert that pops out easily . . . you can just pinch it vertically to get it back in. No need to slide the whole thing out. Denny

I took Fellowship's vortex scupper idea and tried to improve on it by gluing a rubber O-ring to the bottom of the threaded PVC fitting and building a wire cage underneath to trap a floating bead, but it didn't seem to work any better than the original idea of using the finger of a vinyl glove. I've found that the vortex idea works best if you use a LONG glove fingers and cut the slot in the end it very carefully using a sharp X-Acto knife.