Outboard Options for Classic 20

[Windrider]

Hello, all, new member here.

I am with a California State University. The University has owned a 1977 Seacraft 20 for decades - probably since she was new. First she was used by the Marine Biology Department as a research/dive boat. When they were donated newer/larger replacements, they were very sorry to see her go. After sitting idle for about 5 years, she came to my program at the university, Sailing. I hope it isn't a mortal sin on this forum on use a Seacraft as a coach boat and for towing around sailboats! We love this boat far better than the Whalers commonly used for this purpose and recently won a grant to be able to restore her. She needs it! The threads on restoration here will be invaluable.

But first, I hope you will help me help me make a decision about a new outboard. She currently has a Yamaha 130 two stroke, I don't know if this is the original engine or not. We do have a grant to purchase a new outboard. The current outboard seems a bit heavy for this boat; we have had to put lead weights in the bow, along with two anchors and their chain, in order to keep her reasonably level. She seems very low in the stern, though, and did flood twice during this year's unusually heavy rains.

What we want out of a new outboard is something less of a gas guzzler, quieter, better able to take extended idling and low speed operation, and still have enough power to tow our sailboats. It would be nice if it was lighter, too, though that may be a tall order. On our grant proposal, we asked for a Mercury 115 four-stroke, but comparing weights, this might just be too much. The specifications plate on the boat, that should have the info I need on maximum engine weight and HP, has long since been oxidized into oblivion.

I should mention that we are towing sailboats that weigh 2 1/2 tons, sometimes more than one at a time. In fact, we were racing against a rival University and needed to tow the sailboats to the starting line due to light winds. The other university's 20' Whaler was having problems towing their boats, so I ended up towing the ENTIRE fleet of 8 boats (2 1/2 tons each)! The good old Seacraft with her 130 did it in style at around 5 knots.

I would be pleased to hear suggestions for new outboards for this old girl that will help her continue to be such an excellent safety boat. We promise we'll take her fishing once in a while when she's done being fixed up!

[Fr. Frank]

I hope it isn't a mortal sin on this forum on use a Seacraft as a coach boat and for towing around sailboats! We love this boat far better than the Whalers commonly used for this purpose and recently won a grant to be able to restore her. She needs it! The threads on restoration here will be invaluable.

But first, I hope you will help me help me make a decision about a new outboard. She currently has a Yamaha 130 two stroke, I don't know if this is the original engine or not. We do have a grant to purchase a new outboard. The current outboard seems a bit heavy for this boat;

The '77 20' Seacraft was rated for 175 hp, which means a maximum 385 lb motor, as the 20" Evinrude/Johnson 175 of that year weighed in at 385. In contrast, the Yamaha 20" 130 TLRR weighs 360 lbs. Both are close to the weight limit for the boat as manufactured.

Having managed a SeaCraft marina during the early 80's, I can tell you that the most common motor we installed on 20' SeaCraft hulls was either the 85/115/140 hp Evinrude/Johnson, at 320-335 lbs; or the 90/115/140 Mercury/Mariner at 297-315 lbs. (The inline 6 cylinder Mercury outboard is actually the motor the hull was designed for).

What we want out of a new outboard is something less of a gas guzzler, quieter, better able to take extended idling and low speed operation, and still have enough power to tow our sailboats. It would be nice if it was lighter, too, though that may be a tall order. On our grant proposal, we asked for a Mercury 115 four-stroke, but comparing weights, this might just be too much.

The 115 Mercury 4S with 20" shaft is 399 lbs, and the Merc 115/125 Optimax 2S is 375 lbs. Both are good motors, but 60-85 lbs more than the hull was really designed for. The new Evinrude Etec 115/130 is also 390 lbs. The Suzuki 115 4S is 415 lbs, the Tohatsu/Nissan 115 2S is 378 lbs.

All this means you're realistically looking at a 400 lb motor when you replace the Yammie. The Etec and the Optimax, while both 2 strokes, have excellent reputations as very economical engines at extended low-speed operation, and develop higher torque at low-mid range rpms.

I can find nothing negative to say against the 'Zuke, but I love my current 90 hp Optimax on my 20' Seafari. Given my choice of current motors across the board, and staying below 400 lbs, I would choose the Mercury 125 hp Optimax, with the extended (6 year) warranty. Without the extended warranty, I would probably choose the Evinrude 130 Etec. Both have a standard 3 yr, non-declining warranty. If I remember correctly, tests showed the 130 Etec actually dyno-testing at 141 hp, and the 125 Optimax at 133 hp.

But in the refurb, I'd raise the deck a couple of inches, and raise the transom to 25", AND install a top-quality Samson Post for towing.

[eggsuckindog]

Your best and apparently according to Frank about the only option would be the 130 Etec - now you can move the battery under the console that helps a bunch. When towing though the stern will want to squat, I would consider putting transom wedges on it to get more negative trim which would help that alot - their cheap and easy to install when they do the motor, their just alum wedges.

The new motors, all of them are just much heavier than the 70's although I'm not why excatly. I have a 410# 200 Merc with 2 batteries under the console and a T Top, mine will self bail at rest just fine. 2 people standing in the back it will come up through the scuppers but that actually is what they were designed to do - in and out.

Not sure if your using 2 batteries but its a pretty good idea and mounted up front should help too.

The Etec is very close in sound and fuel to a 4 stroke - will have much more lowend torque which you need and - absolutely no maintaince for 3 yrs, honest you don't need to touch it, just pour a couple gallons of oil in the tank a year.

[McGillicuddy]

Greetings Windrider,
Along with Fr. Franks suggestions the E-tec 90 is 325 lbs and might be worth a look.

I don't know if it has the guts for your pulling task, but they are otherwise perfect for that boat if you're not concerned with exceeding 35 mph. In addition to moving the batteries forward, you might consider moving the console forward and removing extra counter weight altogether.

You a Keelhauler? Just curious, what class of boats are you pulling and in what water, if you don't mind me asking? Catalina 37? SF Bay?

[Windrider]

Thank you so much, Frank! Excellent info and just what I need.

A little more info on the boat just came in from a Marine Bio professor who said he logged hundreds of hours on her for research. Yes, they got her new and she came with a 90hp Johnson. I guess someone thought that was too small, because a decade later they got the 130 Yamaha, but the prof admitted he always thought it was too heavy for the boat.

I had already mentioned to the refurb crew that raising the transom would be a good thing, since I can't imagine that the whole transom won't need rebuilding anyway. Hadn't thought about raising the deck, but will talk to the Shipyard about it. She did get hauled out today! Work has started on the bottom, which has a zillion student-applied layers of bottom paint (with something that looks bizarrely like primer in between the layers).

Okay, I have been racking my brain about how to put a samson post on this boat and couldn't figure out how to. Can you give me an idea, Frank? I have only ever seen Samson posts on boats with inboards. If put on a boat with an outboard, how do you keep the towline from rubbing on and interfering with the outboard?

I don't think we need the full 130 HP. I hope we will never again have to tow 8 sailboats at once, more usual is one and rarely two at a time! The boats we tow, while heavy, tend to be easy towers. Once up to speed, they stay there with little help and track very well. I will have to look into which of the two-strokes mentioned are actually available in California (with our strict CARB regs).

McGillicuddy, it isn't just our SeaCraft that is a Classic! Our keelboat fleet is actually quite a bit older. We have five 30' Shields, which are a motor-less inshore racer/knock-about, basically just a scaled down version of the meter class America's Cup boats. They were made by ChrisCraft. We are Fleet #20, Cal. State Long Beach. It has been a long project, but we have been restoring these sailing classics to their former glory as well.

Shields hull #10 (yes, 10!) with the Seacraft in the background:

[BigLew]

McGillicuddy, it isn't just our SeaCraft that is a Classic! Our keelboat fleet is actually quite a bit older. We have five 30' Shields, which are a motor-less inshore racer/knock-about, basically just a scaled down version of the meter class America's Cup boats. They were made by ChrisCraft. We are Fleet #20, Cal. State Long Beach. It has been a long project, but we have been restoring these sailing classics to their former glory as well.

Shields hull #10 (yes, 10!) with the Seacraft in the background:

OK,OK, I'm going back to school to San Diego State and joining the sailing team. Those are beautiful boats and certainly deserve the refurb efforts.

I don't know about your Conference's boats, but I STRONGLY suspect that your fleet is the most classic of the bunch! I crewed for Ann Boyd, past National Jr. Champ in Y-Flyers. We sailed 505's when I was in school with her.

[eggsuckindog]

I think a 90 is too small a 115 might work OK but not sure you save any weight. The Etec is a the cleanest greenest of them all with latest tech out there, no problem in CA unless they ban outboards which is possible. The 130 is really perfect on the boat, all new ones were rigged with 150 Mercs at my shop and we were big, that 130 I'm sure would equal.

[McGillicuddy]

Fantastic picture! Those Shields are beautiful boats. I was guessing you were up at CA Maritime Academy...Sorry...
The Merc and Evinrude - Optimax and the E-tec, respectively, are both CARB 3 compliant direct fuel injection 2-strokes. They are clean, quiet, strong and efficient, often exceeding the 4-strokes rivals in their hp class in all categories. Tohatsu also has DFI strong, reliable motor but I believe they are only CARB 2 compliant. They sell quite a few 2-strokes down in SD and I'm sure it is so in the south bay.

Good luck with your selection. And welcome aboard!

[Fr. Frank]

Okay, I have been racking my brain about how to put a samson post on this boat and couldn't figure out how to. Can you give me an idea, Frank? I have only ever seen Samson posts on boats with inboards. If put on a boat with an outboard, how do you keep the towline from rubbing on and interfering with the outboard?

If you're going to tow, a Samson post is much better than a bridle. While having the post fixed to the keelson is best, there are two common types of Samson posts in usage that are not anchored to the keelson.

The first is called a tow pylon, and is nothing more than an extra heavy-duty ski pylon, bolted to the deck in front of the motor, with two load bearing arms traveling backwards to the transom. The bitt of the towing pylon is usually high enough above the deck that the tow line passes above the OB motor cowling under strain. This one is at SeaTow in Boston, and also has a protective hoop to keep towlines out of the props:


The second type of unsecured Samson post is for use on full transoms and is often used for securing anchor rodes on the bow of a boat, but has a more limited capacity. With a good backing plate and the cap securely fastened to the hull, it would easily pull at the limit of force a 130 OB motor could apply:


I highly recommend the first of these.

[castalot]

to add to the vote for the e-tec they are running a sale with a 5 year warrenty