We need Change!!

[gofastsandman]

I never leave without my whale oil lamp. I got my plb when the football players fished a day I remember. I don't usually bring it on reef trips near shore...

I still think flares are useful in many situations. At night when you hear some thing in the sky? Shotgun flare to the rescue. Hand held to light the runway.

Glad we are having this discussion.
Remember Trayder also resides where folks don't like firearms.

[Copper Collar]

Originally Posted by Terry England

OR you can just have Mel run the boat. She's AWESOME!!!!! You come up and put your hand on the platform! She "spoils" Kenny and I.

But then you will not be in correct cardiovascular shape or have the needed strength to dive safely.

[gofastsandman]

Originally Posted by Copper Collar

But then you will not be in correct cardiovascular shape or have the needed strength to dive safely.

Tell that to those fat ass turtles.

[Terry England]

Originally Posted by gofastsandman

Tell that to those fat ass turtles.

Are you refering to Kenny, Doug and I at Sebastian?
We brought home the bacon!
Even Spidey and his Cuz came out fur that!

[DonV]

I thought it was Spidey and his Cuz, which is also his wife?

[Trayder]

Originally Posted by gofastsandman

Trayder also resides where folks don't like firearms.

Ummmmm, we live in the same state

What about life rafts, AIS, min electrical requirements? Where does it end.

I know personal responsibility is getting to be a thing of the past but I still beleive and practice it.

[kmoose]

Originally Posted by Copper Collar

Speaking of proven life saving requirements., those D tables that everyone enjoys so much in diving are based upon people that do not have a hole in there heart as verified by EKG, under 21% body fat, and can pass a PST (see minimums below). It cuts down the risk of DCS and AGE to a tolerable level. Should the government MANDATE that all PADI and NAUI divers meet those standards? After all it is proven, safer, and healthcare minimums are set by the government now.


Swim 500 yards breast/side stroke 12:30 or less
50 push ups
50 sit ups
6 pull ups
Run 1.5 miles 12:30 or less



BTW flares are far from antiquated if you know how to employ them correctly.

We could go all day on tit for tat... building codes, bridges, planes,.... pic your topic. Bottom line PLDs are already mandated for documented and commercial vessels regardless of size so there is no big stretch or unreasonable expense to apply that to recreational vessels venturing offshore past state waters. It's reasonable, applicable and you won't find a seasoned mariner that has spent any amount of time offshore denying their value.

I read an interview with a SARs team Coastie stating that EBIRBs and type 3 pfds with strobes provide the best chance you will sleep in your own bed if faced with an maritime emergency. There is a lot of weight in that statement and it should bare consideration to those owning vessels capable of venturing beyond the last channel marker.

Should there be a mandate to extend the federal mandates to all vessels venturing into federal waters? Personally I think there is merit to consider such in some degree. You and Tryader, obviously not. Maybe a registry of boaters not wanting to comply would be in order so that the CG doesn't have to waste millions of our tax dollars for boaters that would opt to make SAR more difficult and costly than it has to be. But then again I don't feel a dime should be spent treating treating traumatic head injuries suffered by motorcyclists who don't wear helmets nor should any recovery attempts be made if I don't surface from a 350 ft trimix dive.

[Trayder]

Originally Posted by kmoose

We could go all day on tit for tat... building codes, bridges, planes,.... pic your topic. Bottom line PLDs are already mandated for documented and commercial vessels regardless of size so there is no big stretch or unreasonable expense to apply that to recreational vessels venturing offshore past state waters. It's reasonable, applicable and you won't find a seasoned mariner that has spent any amount of time offshore denying their value.

I read an interview with a SARs team Coastie stating that EBIRBs and type 3 pfds with strobes provide the best chance you will sleep in your own bed if faced with an maritime emergency. There is a lot of weight in that statement and it should bare consideration to those owning vessels capable of venturing beyond the last channel marker.

Should there be a mandate to extend the federal mandates to all vessels venturing into federal waters? Personally I think there is merit to consider such in some degree. You and Tryader, obviously not. Maybe a registry of boaters not wanting to comply would be in order so that the CG doesn't have to waste millions of our tax dollars for boaters that would opt to make SAR more difficult and costly than it has to be. But then again I don't feel a dime should be spent treating treating traumatic head injuries suffered by motorcyclists who don't wear helmets nor should any recovery attempts be made if I don't surface from a 350 ft trimix dive.

Also just for the record, I would not be against the mandate by any means, I have had an EPIRB or equiv for well over 20 years along with a few PLB's, never leave the dock with them, on my boat or others. I am just not for more govt regulations on items that should be common sense. As for reducing search and rescue, sure, but much like everything else there will always be folks that do not adhere to govt rules and will need help regardless. all of this seems like a knee jerk reaction to the recent events, which suck (the events not the knee jerk)

[bumpdraft]

I'm not necessarily against requiring locater devices on all off shore boats. What size boat would be considered, or would it just be if you are caught offshore. I sometimes see people in jon boats out further than 3 miles.
The op implied that the devices should be made affordable and required. My point about that is, affordable and required is not how things work out.
I just checked the price of 4 boat flares at WM, almost $28. Six not for boat flares, about $14 (plus a handy traffic vest). What is it that makes the boat flares so much more money, the uscg approval, the way they are made (they burn differently), or could it be the requirement.
I carried a box of 30 minute flares around for years (not the same ones) and never had a problem getting them to light. They stayed lit in the rain. Like anything else, you had to check them once in a while. If the whole box got soaked, it would need to be replaced. I keep my boat flares in watertight container, but I would imagine they need to stay dry as well.
That stated, I see the day coming that every boat will need to have a locator that is on at all times.

[Copper Collar]

Originally Posted by kmoose

We could go all day on tit for tat... building codes, bridges, planes,.... pic your topic. Bottom line PLDs are already mandated for documented and commercial vessels regardless of size so there is no big stretch or unreasonable expense to apply that to recreational vessels venturing offshore past state waters. It's reasonable, applicable and you won't find a seasoned mariner that has spent any amount of time offshore denying their value.

I read an interview with a SARs team Coastie stating that EBIRBs and type 3 pfds with strobes provide the best chance you will sleep in your own bed if faced with an maritime emergency. There is a lot of weight in that statement and it should bare consideration to those owning vessels capable of venturing beyond the last channel marker.

The point of going tit for tat is that while my example is proven and the PLD is proven, people believe one isn't ridiculous while the other they believe is. To me that means that this reaction isn't really about taking life saving measures, it's about feel good measures, which also inadvertently mandate a purchase of a product and chip just a little more freedom away from the populous.

Think of it this way, You see a girl at the bar and you offer her $1,000,000 for a BJ. She says yeah, but then you tell her you don't have the mil, you only have $5. She gets all offended.

You already know where her morals are at the $1,000,000 offer, past that you are just negotiating the price. Same goes here and with every other topic of giving the government more power/authority.

Originally Posted by Trayder

Also just for the record, I would not be against the mandate by any means, I have had an EPIRB or equiv for well over 20 years along with a few PLB's, never leave the dock with them, on my boat or others. I am just not for more govt regulations on items that should be common sense. As for reducing search and rescue, sure, but much like everything else there will always be folks that do not adhere to govt rules and will need help regardless. all of this seems like a knee jerk reaction to the recent events, which suck (the events not the knee jerk)

As I said before if it's because the two are 14yo, say it was two 34yo men, would we really be having a multi page thread on here? Would we really be demanding PLDs on all boats?

Originally Posted by bumpdraft

What size boat would be considered, or would it just be if you are caught offshore. I sometimes see people in jon boats out further than 3 miles.
The op implied that the devices should be made affordable and required. My point about that is, affordable and required is not how things work out.

Preciously, it's easy to jump to an over the top mandate without going into the details about it. When you get in the weeds of how to apply that mandate, punishments for breaking that mandate, who will monitor the mandate, how will they monitor it, who will be governed by that mandate, how exceptions are given out, why those exceptions are given out. It turns complicated fast, just like everything else the government touches.