Best riding SeaCraft model ?

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by red20

All depends on the conditions but I guess longer, more beam and weight will always win unless you are looking to go fast and shallow.

More length and weight always help, but LESS beam (= less lift) and more deadrise (= less lift) will always create a softer ride, although a deep narrow hull will tend to be a bit tipsy at rest as Connor mentions. (Connor has accumulated a lot of "seat time" from years of dive trips in rough seas on many different boats, so his comments about a boats ride and handling are well founded and worth listening to!)

The first picture below is that "knife edge" view of Island Trader's 21 that Don sees in Skip & Carla's boat! Easy to see why that hull rides so well in a chop or steep head seas!

The next picture is a neat comparison of the Moesly 21 and Seafari 25 hulls that that CSC member Big Fluke put together. Notice how similar the deadrise is up forward, between stations 14 and 18! He hasn't posted much but he's a naval architect that owns both a Moesly 21 and 3 Seafari 25's, one of which has been converted to a CC. His company has done many studies and tests of small boat performance in rough seas for the US Navy, and he said the Seafari 25 is the most sea-kindly hull they have ever tested!

The last pic is a bow shot of a 23 Sceptre. Not quite the same angle as that 21 shot, but I see a lot of flat surfaces that aren't there on either the 21 or 25. It's undoubtedly a drier riding boat than the 21, but those flat surfaces will create more lift that definitely won't help the ride. That may explain why my friend that ran his 21 to the Bahamas for 27 years said that the many 23's that crossed with him always had trouble keeping up with him whenever the seas got over 3-4'!

[cdavisdb]

Hate to say it, but I suspect that the 25 Seafari would not like outboards, especially twins. Center of gravity, both vertical and fore and aft, argues against outboards. The boat likes weight forward; otherwise it doesn't take the sea as well and wants to hobby horse. outboards have the opposite effect, shifting weight aft. Big tabs help, but its not the same as having the CG forward. The boat is also tippy compared to some deepVs (almost certainly the Septre as well) Outboards raise the CG and make the tendency to roll much worse. As noted above the inboard 23 CC rides great. Engine position gives that boat a very low and forward CG. That's why it rides so well. I've thought about reconfiguring the seafari for a single inboard, but can't figure out how to do it and keep good cabin access.

You might want to rethink 1/0s and keep the 25 on a trailer.

[cdavisdb]

I salivate every time I see that comparison of the 21 and 25. The 25 is near perfect for me, but the idea of having a 21 stretched to 25 would be even better, maybe a whole lot better. it ought to ride just as well, maybe even better and be a lot more stable at rest.

There aren't many times when I really wish I had a whole lot more money, but this is one of them.

The "dry ride" issue is really interesting. I gather the 21 is a bit wet. From experience, the 25 is incredibly dry, even though it sure doesn't look like it should be. No idea what the difference is.

[bgreene]

That Mosely 21 hull design is very interesting.....

I'm trailering a Wellcraft V21 now - very easy to handle at the ramp, spacious fishing room and - most importantly - decent ride with the trim tab. Eliminated the pounding in 3' seas.'

Later I plan to move up a notch...... as in likely years later, and have long admired the older SeaCrafts. The Sceptre as example of high sided, very roomy classic looking boat.

[cdavisdb]

Looking at the lines of the two boats(I do this a lot), the seafari is more cutaway forward and deeper aft. In theory(I think) that should make it ride better in a following sea, up to a point. After that point, less buoyancy in the bow of the 25 might get to be a problem. It can look down right spooky when the bow sinks deep into the next wave. Never has felt anything other than rock solid.

Questions for Denny:

Did the 21 ever feel like it was trying to steer by the bow (and broach) in a big, steep following sea with the boat running a bit faster than the waves?

In the same conditions, did the bow ever sink so deep into the wave in front that it looked or felt spooky?

Connor

[Capt Chuck]

Did the 21 ever feel like it was trying to steer by the bow (and broach) in a big, steep following sea with the boat running a bit faster than the waves?

Under certain sea conditions my 23' did & I had to back off the throttle a bit but less now that it is bracketed

[gofastsandman]

Originally Posted by cdavisdb

I salivate every time I see that comparison of the 21 and 25. The 25 is near perfect for me, but the idea of having a 21 stretched to 25 would be even better, maybe a whole lot better. it ought to ride just as well, maybe even better and be a lot more stable at rest.

There aren't many times when I really wish I had a whole lot more money, but this is one of them.

The "dry ride" issue is really interesting. I gather the 21 is a bit wet. From experience, the 25 is incredibly dry, even though it sure doesn't look like it should be. No idea what the difference is.

From what I gather, the 21 was the first love. Really steeep.

Hunt had the 31.

Neat times.

Fast and nothing but the pad and tabs in the water.

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by cdavisdb

Questions for Denny:

Did the 21 ever feel like it was trying to steer by the bow (and broach) in a big, steep following sea with the boat running a bit faster than the waves?

In the same conditions, did the bow ever sink so deep into the wave in front that it looked or felt spooky?

Connor

I'll forward your questions to Bob, as I've never ridden in the 21 under those conditions.

On my first return from the Bahamas, we had a north wind crossing the Gulf Stream with steep 6-8' breaking seas, but he didn't seem to have any trouble with them. The seas were so steep and close together that I was a little worried about sticking my Seafari's bow into the back of the next wave and pitch-poling, so I'd pull the throttle back as I approached them! You're right, it's a little spooky when the bow sinks clear up to the rub rail in the next wave, but it always seemed to have plenty of buoyancy and I never had any water over the deck, although I'm sure it could happen if you run a little too fast. Bob said that boat NEVER ever showed any signs of wanting to broach, and he said the best way to run a nasty inlet with it was simply WOT! Those vertical steps are so tall on that hull that the "multiple keel" effect probably does a good job of preventing any tendency to yaw or broach.

I understand where you're coming from with those questions though, as I've had those same thoughts myself about the deep forefoot on the 21 vs. the cutaway on the 21. Moesly designed the 25 Seafari and the 25-30' race boats, which have very similar lines, after many hundreds if not thousands of racing miles in the 21, so I'm sure he thought it was an improvement. It would reduce wetted surface, so it probably helps speed in racing conditions. A lot of modern go-fast boats seem to have that same cutaway. He also eliminated the outer, low deadrise panels on the race boats, probably because they would be clear out of the water anyway at racing speeds, and you also wouldn't want the extra lift on re-entry after going airborne off a big wave either! However the deep forefoot on the 21 increases it's waterline length and probably softens the ride at more moderate speeds. Denny

[bgreene]

Is the 25 Seafari an inboard only rig ?

[cdavisdb]

As built, the 25 Seafari always had I/0s, always twin 6 cylinders, I think. A single 350 1/0 works great(what I have). I've seen various conversions to single and/or twin outboards, but never talked to anyone who ran one. Never seen an inboard model, that would almost certainly require changing the cabin.

Thanks, Denny.