Seaworthiness of 20' SeaCraft...

[cdavisdb]

Low transum is a major factor I wasn't thinking about, CC too. I guess it depends on the individual twenty. A Seafari with a full transum or good transum box is pretty hard to stop. I would not have hesitated to go offshore in a 4 ft forecast(when I had younger kidneys), unless I was forced to run a long way straight into it. Thats not a seaworthy issue, much more my kidneys.

I guess the real danger is either sticking the nose into a sea( in a CC) or taking a big one over the stern in any 20. Seems like either is unlikely for a competent skipper, at least in wave heights (face height) of 8 ft or less. But Moose has a point. It can change real fast, especially on the Florida west coast. Big afternoon boomers can generate some incredible steep waves in very shallow water, and very fast.

Steepness matters much more than wave height. I took a big one all the way over the stern of my 25 I/0 in an inlet, but I was doing something really stupid. The same height wave offshore would have been a non-issue.

[uncleboo]

Although the forecast changed on me, I took my 18 out of Oregon Inlet a couple years ago and had a nice ride out to the point. After fishing for about an hour, the wind picked up quite a bit and suddenly the seas were 4-5' and rather close together. Made a wise decision to start heading in. Took quite awhile, but, made it in safely and the 18 handled it beautifully.

[bumpdraft]

Agree, steepness and interval mean more to me than wave height. Now, I generally wait for 1-2 feet. I didn't use to worry about going out in 6 ft seas in my 18' and sometimes higher when I was younger. I got to the inlet one time in my 23' cc when it was only 2-3 feet offshore and there were standing waves in the middle of an outgoing tide, full moon. The waves were a good six ft from top to bottom and the bow was into one wave before the stern was off the other one. About two feet of the wave came in, hitting the console and putting a good deal of water on the deck. It may have been better in that instance to not have a splash well door. I think, with enough power, I could have got the 18's bow up enough to go over, instead of through the second wave.

[EarToTheWater]

Originally Posted by McGillicuddy

Out west (CA)I feel pretty comfortable in a 20 Seafari with a 300 lb 20" motor. An extra 100 lbs not so sure....But a 25" transom is a no brainer and a splash wall around the splashwell is a definite plus. My Seafari 20 handles 2-4' mixed-up slop fine, and even better if the if the form is consistent. But come 3' at 18 knots in mixed up seas, and you're doing X-Games tricks. And while she lands pretty softly, and you don't always know if you'll land in the same direction you were going. I call that enrolling with nature. In a CC these same conditions would definitely give a bit more pucker factor.

Not sure if this is what Beaver was thinking of but, here you go:

Thanks for hunting that photo down! 3' didn't sound like a big difference but judging from that photo it's a big 3'!

Originally Posted by 76Red18

I think the t top on my 18 is it's most limiting attribute. In a windy enough situation and caught in a trough, she would broach for sure. An 18 or a 20 with no top, an enclosed transom or splash board, properly designed scuppers, a light motor and load would be hard to stop.
You can't push the open transom issue enough...probably the factor that led to the recent tragedy. That 18 had an open transom with no board.

Thanks! Those TUUCI umbrellas seem like a very nice compromise! The light motor seems like it would be second in priority only to fully enclosed transom. Ability to plane at low speeds 12-13 adds alot in terms of seaworthiness imho.

Originally Posted by cdavisdb

Low transum is a major factor I wasn't thinking about, CC too. I guess it depends on the individual twenty. A Seafari with a full transum or good transum box is pretty hard to stop. I would not have hesitated to go offshore in a 4 ft forecast(when I had younger kidneys), unless I was forced to run a long way straight into it. Thats not a seaworthy issue, much more my kidneys.

I guess the real danger is either sticking the nose into a sea( in a CC) or taking a big one over the stern in any 20. Seems like either is unlikely for a competent skipper, at least in wave heights (face height) of 8 ft or less. But Moose has a point. It can change real fast, especially on the Florida west coast. Big afternoon boomers can generate some incredible steep waves in very shallow water, and very fast.

Steepness matters much more than wave height. I took a big one all the way over the stern of my 25 I/0 in an inlet, but I was doing something really stupid. The same height wave offshore would have been a non-issue.

Thanks! West coast Florida drives me crazy its like driving in a shook up soup bowl! For some reason I keep going back though must be Boca's blue waters! If I ever have kidney stones I'll make the run in those kinda seas seems cheaper than payin a doctor to break'em up with ultrasonic waves

Originally Posted by bumpdraft

Agree, steepness and interval mean more to me than wave height. Now, I generally wait for 1-2 feet. I didn't use to worry about going out in 6 ft seas in my 18' and sometimes higher when I was younger. I got to the inlet one time in my 23' cc when it was only 2-3 feet offshore and there were standing waves in the middle of an outgoing tide, full moon. The waves were a good six ft from top to bottom and the bow was into one wave before the stern was off the other one. About two feet of the wave came in, hitting the console and putting a good deal of water on the deck. It may have been better in that instance to not have a splash well door. I think, with enough power, I could have got the 18's bow up enough to go over, instead of through the second wave.

Thanks! Did that happen heading out of Sebastian?

[EarToTheWater]

Originally Posted by uncleboo

Although the forecast changed on me, I took my 18 out of Oregon Inlet a couple years ago and had a nice ride out to the point. After fishing for about an hour, the wind picked up quite a bit and suddenly the seas were 4-5' and rather close together. Made a wise decision to start heading in. Took quite awhile, but, made it in safely and the 18 handled it beautifully.

Thanks! A close 4-5 is no joke! I have no problem slowing down if the situation requires it! I love how ya'll say they plane at low speeds that's a huge plus! I looked at the 18's but I'm biggin enough to count for 2 people

[NoBones]

EarToTheWater have you ever taken a ride in any SeaCraft ?

If not and you want to experience it in a 20 SF
or Lil' Kenny's 23 Sceptre..

I will be more then happy to charge out Ponce so you
can see first hand what the boats are capable of !!

Keep in mind Ponce is rated the 8th worst in the country !

Been in Daytona my whole life so our inlet is second nature to me !

Out going tide incoming wind will prove to you the seaworthiness...

[EarToTheWater]

Originally Posted by NoBones

EarToTheWater have you ever taken a ride in any SeaCraft ?

If not and you want to experience it in a 20 SF
or Lil' Kenny's 23 Sceptre..

I will be more then happy to charge out Ponce so you
can see first hand what the boats are capable of !!

Keep in mind Ponce is rated the 8th worst in the country !

Been in Daytona my whole life so our inlet is second nature to me !

Out going tide incoming wind will prove to you the seaworthiness...

Count me in! I've only seen one seacraft in person, and I've never ridden in one! I didn't know ponce was rated that bad the only thing I've had to compare it to is sebastian, stuart, lil gasparilla pass, and boca grande pass... lol I guess it's one of those things where you'd have to have been enough places to know better

[FishStretcher]

Originally Posted by McGillicuddy

Out west (CA)I feel pretty comfortable in a 20 Seafari with a 300 lb 20" motor. An extra 100 lbs not so sure....But a 25" transom is a no brainer and a splash wall around the splashwell is a definite plus. My Seafari 20 handles 2-4' mixed-up slop fine, and even better if the if the form is consistent. But come 3' at 18 knots in mixed up seas, and you're doing X-Games tricks. And while she lands pretty softly, and you don't always know if you'll land in the same direction you were going. I call that enrolling with nature. In a CC these same conditions would definitely give a bit more pucker factor.

Not sure if this is what Beaver was thinking of but, here you go:

I was looking at the pic of the 20 and 23 transoms side by side. It occurs to me that the 20 Master Angler cap (which is raised several inches) might not be much lower than the 23.

I have one and run it with the splashwell door and a stock 20" transom. It is a great little boat. I have had it in 7-8 footers off Horseneck beach. I didn't WANT to be there, but the seas and sand bars gave me no choice. I could only see maybe 60 feet forward and 60 feet behind me while I was planing in the trough between waves- I couldn't see over them!

What I learned from that was:

1 Don't do THAT again!
2 A low planing speed saved my butt.
3 The motor working flawlessly was crucial to getting out of there.

I can plane at very low speed because I don't have a bracket, and I have a sub 400lb outboard and a hydroshield flying wing under the skeg. I can get it down to just under 10 knots on a soft plane.

I also think my splashwell gate on the 20MA is as high as a full transom on a 20CC.

Additionally, I have 150lb or so of floatation foam under each cap on the 20MA. This should make it much harder to turtle if you ever "dip a rail". Plus a hull full of foam.

As much as everyone says that a 25" transom is better, I have never had an issue with the 20". I am a bit careful backing down on fish. I might be a bit more cavalier with a 25" transom, but I haven't had a problem yet.

With respect to a bracket: not only is handling adversely affected with respect to planing speed, now the boat is very close, if not in excess of a 3:1 length to width ratio, which makes it a little more likely to capsize.

In my opinion, for seaworthiness, I would think about a splashwell gate and a light motor and maybe a master angler. And any repairs should respect the light build of the original- no plywood, no 200hp outboards, batteries should be forward, and no giant livewells in the stern. And a well maintained motor that won't hiccup at a bad moment, and a clean, well filtered fuel system.

As for seas? I get my butt kicked in a Buzzards Bay chop. I swear it is only 18" on top of 2 footers, but 5 feet apart with a 15 knot breeze on top makes for a perpetual salt water shower. And I stay dry riding between 7 footers I can't see over. Even though I need to change my underwear afterwards in either case, for one reason or another.

[EarToTheWater]

Originally Posted by FishStretcher

Additionally, I have 150lb or so of floatation foam under each cap on the 20MA. This should make it much harder to turtle if you ever "dip a rail". Plus a hull full of foam.

As much as everyone says that a 25" transom is better, I have never had an issue with the 20". I am a bit careful backing down on fish. I might be a bit more cavalier with a 25" transom, but I haven't had a problem yet.

With respect to a bracket: not only is handling adversely affected with respect to planing speed, now the boat is very close, if not in excess of a 3:1 length to width ratio, which makes it a little more likely to capsize.

Thanks for replying! Saltwater showers are just part of the game hopefully the fishin is so good you don't think about it How'd you do the foam under the cap? Sealed or no? Master Angler with light motor definitely seems to be the hull to go with if one can't swing a 23'! Nice to hear the 20" can be compensated for, and is not the end of the world. I'd probably end up raising it though just because I can't leave anything alone Interesting to me the perspectives on the brackets seem to leave no middle ground (read the sticky and various other posts). Issues where there is a lot of experienced respected people on both sides are always tough

[jtharmo]

So this is happening in my backyard right now (Lake Erie south of Buffalo).

An empty boat washed up on shore about a mile south of my house yesterday. Coast Guard and AFR have been searching for about 18 hours and just flew overhead right now. This is a pretty knowledgeable group. But this is a good reminder that safely getting back in is as much about what you do before you leave the dock as it is with the rig under you and how you operate it.