ClassicSeacraft.com makes the maggies...

[John R]

...well sorta [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

In a review of the 23 Seacraft CC here in the Power Boat Reports maggie, classicseacraft.com is mentioned as a reference... This seems to be an honest report on the boat and they even question how they were handled by the current manufacturer. But they also state how they were wonderfully treated by the "staff @ classicseacraft " and how they were treated well by Mr Potter (Hermco gets a mention too)...

here is some of the article:

The SeaCraft hardly flinched during our sea trial, its legendary hull design living up to all the hype.

Sometimes you gotta travel a little to get to the fish, but 150 nautical miles … and in a 23-foot open boat? That’s what Ian and Shep Murray did (twice) this past summer to reach their favorite fishing spots off of Martha’s Vineyard, MA. The brothers, who hail from Greenwich, CT, crossed three different Sounds (Long Island, Block Island and Rhode Island) in their 2002 SeaCraft 23 Classic, a center console powered with a 225-hp Honda four-stroke. “We left at 7 in the morning and we had our lines in the water by 1:30,” said Ian. “We stopped a few times. It really wasn’t that bad. It’s a great-riding boat.” And it always has been. Since Bill Potter cranked out the first SeaCraft 23 in 1970, owners have been raving about its soft ride. In fact, older SeaCrafts-in all sizes-are all the rage these days, as evidenced by a flourishing website (www.classicseacraft.com) where owners trade renovation tips and tales of slicing and dicing seas no other 23-footer would dare take on. (See the accompanying article). We got a chance to test a SeaCraft 23. Like the Murrays’ boat, it was rigged with a single Honda 225. Here’s our report. Design Research for this article included our usual sea trial and dockside inspection. In addition, we interviewed the Murray brothers, two other SeaCraft owners (one of them launched the aforementioned website) and a SeaCraft dealership on Long Island, NY. For some historical perspective, we spoke to the former owner of SeaCraft, Bill Potter. He and the proud SeaCraft owners and L.I.’s Hampton Watercraft were quite helpful. We wish we could say the same about the current manufacturer of the SeaCraft 23, Tracker Marine, which also owns Mako. It took us three weeks before we could pin down sales and marketing president Frank Longino for an interview. And even then he would only give us “10 minutes.” We hope that this I’m-too-busy (he was preparing for a boat show) attitude doesn’t trickle down from corporate to the dealers and on to the buying public. We actually ended up keeping Mr. Longino on the phone for about 30 minutes. The mission of the 23, according to Longino, is to deliver a smooth head-sea ride at planing speeds and yet troll and drift with minimal roll. “That’s the reason for the 18-degree deadrise at the exterior and 24 degrees at the centerline,” he said. Potter gave us more specific input into the design of the bottom, which as far as he knows has changed little since he ran the company. The SeaCraft website supports his belief: “The 23' Classic is currently built utilizing the same time-honored hull design as when first introduced in the early 1970s.” The key is the bottom’s variable deadrise, which is distributed through longitudinal steps, said Potter, who took the patented design of SeaCraft founder Carl Moesly’s 21-footer, extended it 2 feet and modified the bottom slightly to produce the 23 in 1970. “Instead of strakes, you have panels that are parallel to the keel line,” said Potter, who is still active as a marine accessories designer for Seamark Marine in Florida (www.hermco.net <http://www.hermco.net>). “These panels flatten out as you move outboard.” Once on plane, water flows smoothly outboard, the steps reducing deflection, or “slapping,” upon re-entry. On many other production monohulls, the water must fight past the strakes to escape outboard, which can lead to a rougher ride. Above the waterline, simple lines contribute to an attractive profile. With a straight sheer and freeboard proportioned to satisfy both form and function, we think the boat looks darn good. We wondered whether its performance would measure up to its looks as we nudged the throttle into forward at the 2002 Miami Boat Show. Sea Trial The Miami Boat Show remains the ideal forum for us to test boats. Besides the quick access to the ocean, the fact that hundreds of powerboats pack the channels-and churn up washing-machine-like water-adds to the fun. The two PBR editors who tested this boat brought different driving styles to the helm. Technical advisor Erik Klockars drives hard, in white-knuckle fashion that pushes the boat-and its occupants-to the limit. Let’s put it this way, you quickly discover whether the vessel has an ample number of handrails when Klockars takes the helm. His bat-out-of hell technique helps us uncover any bad habits or characteristics. In contrast, editor Chris Landry concentrates on how the boat operates at cruising speeds, gauging how fast he can run comfortably, the responsiveness of the steering and controls, and visibility at the helm. (Stability while adrift and at slower speeds sits high on his priority list, too.)
The SeaCraft boasts a clean deck layout, with recessed hardware. The T-top supports on many center consoles often block sightlines, a safety hazard as well as an annoyance. Not so on the SeaCraft 23. Two support bars are pushed outboard and only slightly impede the helmsman’s line of sight. While battling our way through the roily waters of Miami’s inlets, it became obvious that this is an excellent sea boat, one that rides much bigger than its LOA. As advertised, the 23’s strong point was its head-sea ride. The boat thought nothing of a 2-foot chop at a cruising rpm of 3500. Three-footers awaited in the ocean, and the SeaCraft was up to the task. She wasn’t as smooth-riding in quartering seas, but still did an adequate job. We had no problems with the hydraulic steering, finding it quite responsive with a tight four turns from lock to lock. Klockars pushed the throttles down to achieve a top speed of 38 knots and ran the boat in all directions in search of moments of uncontrollability. He found none. Our sea trial was relatively dry. Winds were moderate, though. Remember, this is a small boat-and completely open, so it’s no surprise that the Murrays report that they got wet on their passages to and from the Vineyard. In fact, Ian Murray said that “the boat is wetter than I expected.” He might have to make the same addition as David Pugsley, who frequently runs a refurbished (1979) 23 through Sir Francis Drake Channel in the British Virgin Islands. “I have spray rails starting about a foot up from the waterline in the bow and tapering down to waterline level about amidships,” said Pugsley, marina operations director of Bitter End Yacht Club in Virgin Gorda. He uses the boat for both work and pleasure. “This is why this particular boat is so dry.” With that Honda four-stroke, our test boat consumed about 8 gallons per hour while attaining a speed of roughly 21 knots. And of course this V6 four-stroke murmurs quietly at trolling speeds-a mere 71 decibels pushing along at 1500 rpm. The four-stroke isn’t going to pop her out of the hole as quickly as a two-stroke, but we wouldn’t call it sluggish, either.

Construction Today’s 23 is built to be lightweight but durable. The company uses a 100% vinylester resin throughout, which we’d expect in a high-end boat like the SeaCraft. Some builders claim to use vinylester, but it’s actually a blend of polyester and vinylester. Construction crews hand-lay the biaxial fiberglass fabric to a solid ¾” thickness on the bottom. SeaCraft does use quite a bit of coring, but just not in the bottom, which is fine by us considering the fact that ensuring an intimate skin-to-core bond can be tricky. Also, a solid glass bottom can be more easily repaired than a cored one. Airex PVC foam is used to core the sides and decks, according to Longino. The hull-to-deck bond seems durable-the shoebox joint is glassed together and further secured with stainless steel screws. All hardware is through-bolted with lock nuts or tapped aluminum plates. Through-hulls are bronze and chrome/bronze, much better than those PVC through-hulls that dry-out, chalk and crack after 5 years. The builder gives you a 7-year warranty on the hull and no gelcoat coverage. With the claimed high level of construction materials, methods and design, we asked Longino why not offer a 10 or even 20-year warranty-and some sort of blistering warranty? “It’s bad business to do that-you’re on the hook for 20 years,” said Longino. So what? Boatbuilders should be “on the hook” for more than a mere 5 or 7 years, in our opinion. We don’t like the fuel tank installation. To fully access the aluminum fuel tank, you’d have to remove the console and leaning post and cut the deck. Longino said foam is not used around the tank, which is good since it will trap moisture against the corrosive aluminum. We’d much prefer a plastic fuel tank. Aluminum tanks, in our opinion, should be fully accessible for inspection and removal without having to perform major surgery on the deck. Helm/Deck What do coaming bolster pads, snapped-down cushions, navigation lights, cleats and bow rails have in common? They snag fishing lines and hooks. SeaCraft tucks away most of these elements to minimize the snag-factor. The only exception: The pads on the two-person seat and backrest molded into the forward section of the console. Secured with long SS piano hinges, the pads (which also serve as the hatch lids) don’t appear to be removable, either. The spring and stern cleats are mounted on the hull sides and accessed through stainless steel hawseholes. The bow cleat is the pop-up type. At 6” and all alone, this cleat needs to be bigger to handle two docklines.
A clear livewell lid helps some baitfish survive longer. Crew standing in the cockpit will appreciate the waist-high grabrails on the leaning post.

The boat has no bow rail of the conventional sort. A recessed 1”D rail begins just outboard of the leaning post and rings the bow. It sits inside the deck liner’s L-shaped radius on the inboard side of the gunwale top. You’ll find this low-profile rail on some of SeaCraft’s competitors, notably Contender. The raised casting platform at the bow diminishes the rail’s purpose, however, since the rail is only at shin level once you step up 9-1/2” onto this surface. We prefer a flush foredeck so that the gunwale rises high in front of you, increasing safety on this least-stable section of the boat. The downside: the loss of storage space, but we’ll live with that for the increased safety factor. Moving aft, standard rod racks line the gunwales and flush-mounted rod holders sit inside the gunwale tops at the stern. Freeboard measures 26” just outboard of the helm and 24” at the stern. We’d prefer higher (28”) sides for safety’s sake. The windshield height (61” off the sole) is too short to protect a standing helmsman. The builder stuck the horn switch amongst a strip of others under the steering wheel. We’d move it up higher-and make it red-for quicker recognition and access. Leave the Lenco trim tabs switches where they are-between the throttle and the wheel for no-look operation. The helm seat was comfortable. We found the batteries in the console, secured firmly and with terminals covered with rubber booties. SeaCraft has done an exceptional job with the livewell/leaning post module. Two beefy handrails extend from the top of the backrest down to the livewell. They’re up high, too, so you don’t have to hunker down. On a speedy boat meant for offshore use like this one, crewmembers need something meant for clutching-not the rocket-launcher rod holders (on some boats, you’re lucky to get even that). The builder has selected a clear lid for the livewell, which gives some baitfish a better chance of survival. SeaCraft also builds a livewell into the deck, a nice alternative since transporting bait from a casting net into a raised baitwell gets tricky. Our test boat had a third livewell, raised and in the starboard quarter. Since the Classic’s on-deck design incorporates a cut-out transom, a splashboard forward of the engine is necessary to block green water when backing down or adrift in rough seas. We were impressed with the design of the splashboard and motor well. The stiff 55”-wide board is angled aft to allow for toekick. In fact, the only places you’re deprived of toekick space is at the transom corners. (For an even higher safety factor, we’d like to see standard toerails at the gunwales.) That transom board also folds down on a piano hinge to make room for the motor when it’s trimmed up. A hatch in the cockpit sole aft of the deck livewell leads to bronze seacock fittings with shut-off valves. The bilge pump and switch are logically mounted on an L-shaped bracket-just remove the bracket when it’s time to replace the pump and/or switch. You won’t have to drill holes in your boat. Klockars gives it a thumbs up. Pie hatches in each corner provide access to fuel lines.

Conclusion With the single Honda 225-hp four-stroke, the SeaCraft 23 Classic retails for $58,545. Optional equipment includes trim tabs ($680), Top Gun outriggers ($1,400) and coaming bolster pads ($425). SeaCraft sits among several other high-end center console fishing boats. Certainly, you should consider the competitors, especially the Regulator ($54,500 MSRP) and Contender ($49,899 MSRP with minimal standard equipment). Remember to sea trial all three-don’t just look at them at a boat show.

What does the SeaCraft have going for it? A head-sea ride we can safely say is one of the best we’ve encountered in a small boat. We think the Classic’s topside design is commendable, too, especially the fold-down transom splashboard, snag-free hardware and double-handrail setup at the leaning post. We have no complaints about fit and finish or electrical components (all wiring is tinned). The helm could use a few modifications (move that horn switch up higher), but we like it for the most part because it doesn’t interfere with sightlines. Our biggest concern with the boat is its inaccessible aluminum fuel tank installation. No matter how good the installation, a boat owner should be able to access his fuel tankage without cutting up the boat, in our opinion. We also think the builder should provide more than 7 years for a warranty, and offer some sort of protection against blistering. In our view, this is not too much to ask for considering its price, which equates to more than $2,500 per foot-no wonder used SeaCrafts are so popular.

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[Jon G]

John finds all the neat stuff. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I can't believe you need to cut up the floor on a new boat at that price to get at the gas tank. With my luck I would get the one that the sender starts leaking two years later. I looked at a couple of lower end(price wise-$14K-$19K) boats like the Casco bay skiff and the Nauset Marine Islander which is a copy of the 18' Sea Craft before I bought my boat. Both of these new boats were built, with the "Rough" finish for the inside, no liner minimal storage but what turned me off was both builders built the deck right over the tank with a little six inch deck plater for instection [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] I can't believe [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] SeaCraft would build a top dollar boat of that caliber, and you have to saw the deck up WHEN you encounter a problem with you fuel supply. Is this a normal [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] practice on newer boats or am I just old fashioned?

[ocuyler]

I loved the part:

"It took us three weeks before we could pin down sales and marketing president Frank Longino for an interview. And even then he would only give us “10 minutes".

What an idiot. I would have given them all day and taken them on plant tour. What a marketing opportunity! He should lose his job for that.

It's the first I've read anything about the Honda on a 23. The sales guy at the Ft. Laud show said they had a deal with Merc and would only ship powered that way.

In the end, it's great praise for the 23's. The existance of this very authorative and often critical publication just added resale value for all of us. Somehow, I'll bet Longino won't care either way. He's no Bill Potter.

Otto

[ January 07, 2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Otto Cuyler ]

[Miles Offshore]

Thanx John, you do find all the good stuff (said with a big grin)!!!!!And this IS a great website!

[Billybob]

John - you do find all the stuff.This little site of Jason's really is getting some attention.A friend of mine was at the N.Y. boat show last weekend and spent a couple hours chatting with the Seacraft regional guy.When he mentioned that I had an old yellow 23, and it was on the site, the guy knew the site and even asked if I had the one with or without the T-top.That's pretty damn good, seems like just yesterday that Jason was floating the idea of a site like this.
I can't see how a boat builder could get better advertising than a bunch of nuts like us raving about our 30 year old boats.C'mon Seacraft how bout throwing a little sponsorship Trayder's way!

[John R]

The funny thing is, there is another section of the article dedicated to Trayder & Classicseacraft that is not up there... Guess you need to buy the maggie for it [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ... Billybob (your boat is mentioned too )

Of course I have one bitch & moan here, you all are going to see the value of your used boats go up while costing me more money when I get mine

[Briguy]

This is the part of the article that talkes about Jason. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Capt. Brian

Remember that old shampoo TV
commercial where images of a
beautiful model’s face multiply as
she explains “And I told two
friends, and she told two friends,
and so on …” ? That’s what it has
been like for the membership list
over at www.classicseacraft.com.
Rhode Islander Jason Goldfarb
launched the site while restoring
a 1968 20’ SeaCraft.
“One e-mail led me to five
[used SeaCraft] owners, then 10. I
was talking to them all, but my fingers
got tired, so I created a
website.”
The membership now bulges at
250 with SeaCraft enthusiasts from
all over the country—even the
world (homeports include France,
Bermuda and Cabo San Lucas).
Most of the boats were built in the
70s or 80s. The oldest: a 1967 19-
footer, which Goldfarb writes “is
the most impressive boat on the
site, hands down.” The owner
“has taken great care of his 19, and
has all the original documentation,
warranty cards, and articles about
his boat. His boat is an I/O with a
160-hp Chevy inline six with a
MerCruiser outdrive.”
Goldfarb writes a sizeable portion
of the descriptions accompanying
the before-and-after photographs.
But the site very much belongs
to the owners, most of whom
could never afford a new SeaCraft
(a 23 retails for a whopping $58,000).
“There was a lot of talk about
how great these boats are, but not
having deep pockets I thought I
would never find out how good,”
Website Helps Owners
Revive Old SeaCrafts
writes Steve Syler in his dramatic
buildup to his discovering of a 1979
23-footer for $7,000. He worked for
an entire winter—nights and weekends
—stripping and then refurbishing
the boat.
One of the most common old
SeaCraft repairs has been the replacement
of wet transoms, which
were built with wood and encapsulated
in fiberglass. Goldfarb says
a project like this might seem overwhelming
at first but is quite doable
with the help of an ever-growing
group of SeaCraft owners to fall
back on.
Yes, bringing an old SeaCraft
back from the dead is hard work,
but guys like Syler have no regrets,
especially once they feel that
smoothing-riding, variable deadrise
hull beneath them.
Contact—www.classicseacraft.com;
Jason Goldfarb: 508/295-9700.
Above: In addition to before-and-after
photos of refurbished SeaCrafts,
the website gives you a little history:
SeaCraft’s founder, Carl Moesly, designed
and built the first SeaCraft, a
21-footer, to race offshore.

[Briguy]

The article also states the boat does 38 KNOTS top end. On the powerboat reports page, there is a chart of fuel flow information. At 5600 rpm's, the boat is burning 20gph and the top end is only 33.4kts and 38mph. That seems really slow until you realize it is swinging a 15" pitch prop. I wonder why my old tired 225 could swing a 17" prop? Are these v6 4 strokes that low in torque???? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Powerboat reports also made a mistake in their fuel flow/speed chart stating the boat does 18.5 kts at 3500 rpm's, then 27.1kts at 4000rpm's and then 4500 rpm's at 26.4. kts. Ignoring the typo at 4000 rpm's and assuming everything else is right, that Honda is weak compared to a optimax 225 or dare I say my little 115hp 4 stroke Suzi's. I would have to see how the Yamaha 4 stroke or the hpdi 250 did before I ever bought that Honda.

[ScottM]

Brian,
From what I've read and learned, the V6 4-strokes don't pack the punch that the smaller ones do when compared to 2-strokes. That's why I'm compelled to repower with a direct injected 2-stroke instead, since I'll being going with a single engine.

[Trayder]

Not bad to be in the maggies, considering the site has yet to be a year old [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Next year lets try 60 minutes [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Just want to let you guys know I appreciate all of your help in getting this site running, the only reason it is such a hit is because of the members and those who spread the word.