Paint Vs. Gel-coat

[EBEACH]

How come I never see anyone talking about gel-coat? It’s always paint! Sure, I’ve gone over all of the older posts, but seems like the issue was never really settled. Are people painting because they’re shy about gel-coat or it’s easier? Trayder, how did you make out with that Mako?

I’m still waiting for my boat, but have been fooling around with glass and gel-coat applications. I think I’ve convinced myself that gel-coat is the way to go. Not so much for the finish, but rather the application. Painting requires that all the prep work and finish be done perfectly to get good results. What do you do if a fly lands on your fresh paint? What do you do when spraying or rolling and you come across an area where your sanding work was poor?

I believe that if you can sand, then you can successfully apply gel-coat. I wouldn’t say that about paint. For about $15 you can cover 20 sq ft with gel-coat. Can you even get a can of marine paint for $15? [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Billybob]

Thats a damn good question EBEACH.I don't know a lot about painting boats but I chose paint because I know absolutely NOTHING about gelcoat. So when I started on mine, this site was just a sparkle in Trayders' eyes and all the other boat restoration info on the web was for painting.I honestly thought that to gel coat a whole boat, it had to be done at the factory when it was built.I would like to learn more about it.

[EBEACH]

What I did is to get some plywood that I had laying around and practice my fiberglassing with that. I wanted to do similar things that would be required to replace a transom. Bonding two ¾ pieces together and then glassing that. Also working with inside and outside corners. I must confess that I could not for the life of me cover a sharp 90 degree outside edge. The freaking mat would not lay down over the corner. After working it for a while, the binder broke down and all hell started to break loose. I can just see that transom notch area to be a real treat. Hammers work is a masterpiece [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] .

I’ve used two types of gel-coat now and found they’re not all the same. I first used evercoat brand. Can be bought at most marine stores. My only problem with this product was the amount of time before it would “kick”. It took hours to get to a tacky state. I then used a product from a fiberglass supplier (LBI in CT). This time I also used styrene to thin the gel-coat for spraying along with acetone. I used about 3 oz of gel and a not so scientific approach to the styrene and acetone. A little of this, and a little of that. I was mostly concerned about overspray and the smell. I was doing this in my basement [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] !! Yes, I had an exhaust fan (finally). I used a “Pre-Val” sprayer ( $4 home depot), and everything went better than I expected. Overspray was never a problem, gel-coat went on fine and you could fill big scratches and pits. No drips, runs or errors. After it kicked, I applied a PVA top coat with another Pre-Val sprayer. By the way, the sprayer with the gel-coat was thrown away after the one time use. The next day, I washed the PVA off with warm water, and began sanding with 320 then 400 then 600.

I’ve got a video on gel-coat repairs If anyone is interested. I’ll pass it on at no charge, as long as you agree to do the same for the next member. Its very boring to watch someone sanding, but there are some good points. The quality is rather poor. Trayder, I didn’t name drop because I wasn’t sure if they’d raise or lower the price (hehehe) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[FELLOW-SHIP]

HA EBEACH
FOR ME THE DECISION WAS MADE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROJECT WHEN I DECIDED TO USE EPOXY RESIN TO RE DO THE BOAT. GEL COAT DOES NOT ADHERE TO EPOXY RESIN. GEL COAT DOES JUST FINE WITH POLYESTER AND VINELESTER RESINS BUT NOT WITH EPOXY. MY MAIN DECISION TO USE EPOXY WAS BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST RESIN TO REPAIR BOATS WITH. THE OTHER TWO DO NOT HAVE THE SAME QUALITIES FOR ADHESION AND SINCE I WAS REDOING THE ENTIRE CAP, DECK AND TRANSOM I WANTED TO USE EPOXY. ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BOAT I FILLED IN THE 4 VENTS AND ALSO USED EPOXY FOR THAT AS WELL AS FILLING IN ALL THE 128 HOLES THAT WAS DRILLED IN THE TRANSOM FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNERS FOR INSTALLATION OF EVERYTHING INCLUDING THE KITCHEN SINK. AFTER TALKING TO TRAYDER I DID USE GEL COAT ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BOAT INSTEAD OF PAINT WHICH MADE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME FIRST OFF NO BOTTOM REPAIR WAS NEEDED JUST SOME MINOR FILL IN’S AND WHEN AND IF I KEEP MY BOAT IN WATER FOR OVER 2 WEEKS GEL COAT IS RECOMMENDED OVER TOP PAINT. I KEEP MY BOAT ON A TRAILER BUT YOU NEVER KNOW. I ALSO TALKED TO PROS ON THIS SUBJECT AND THEY USE PAINT FOR A FEW REASONS FIRST OFF IT LOOKS BETTER AND SECOND IT’S QUICKER THAN SANDING AND BUFFING SO IT IS CHEAPER FOR THEM IN THE END BECAUSE OF LESS LABOR. I LIKE MOST GUYS HAS ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT GEL COAT WAS FOR THE MANUFACTURER OR FOR MINOR REPAIRS BUT AFTER TRAYDER’S SUCCESS I HAVE RE THOUGHT THOSE TRADITIONAL THOUGHTS.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[merriweather]

What can be said about the durability of gel-coat? According to Fellowship, a paint job can produce good results for ten plus years. As we have yet to refinish our first watercraft, this issue is of great interest to us considering the involvement of both time and cost (a college fund is of consequence - our house cost less than a college education will cost in four years!)

[FELLOW-SHIP]

GEL COAT IS A SOFTER MATERIAL THEN SOME OF THESE PAINTS THUS IT CAN BE SCARRED UP AND CHIPPED EASIER BUT IT ALSO CAN BE REPAIRING VERY EASY AS WELL ESPECIALLY FOR SMALL REPAIR JOBS. I WOULDN’T WANT TO TRY TO MATCH A COLLARED HULL THOUGH I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO GET IT WRIGHT. PLUS THERE USUALLY IS A DIFFERENCE IN SHEEN AFTER THE REPAIR JOB IS COMPLETED AS FOR PAINT USUALLY THAT IS NOT AS MUCH A PROBLEM. AS FOR COST GEL COAT AND POLYESTER RESIN IS THE CHEAPEST WAY TO GO. AS FOR STRENGTH EPOXY IS YOUR BEST CHOICE BUT THEN YOU WILL ALSO SPEND A LOT MORE $$$ ON PAINT. I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR AND WANTING OUT OF YOUR BOAT WORK. THERE IS NO ONE BEST WAY FOR EVERYONE ALL THOUGH FOR ME PERSONALLY I THINK I MADE THE BEST DECISIONS FOR MY BOAT.
FELLOW-SHIP [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Scott]

FellowShip sums it all up with the statement there is not a method that is better than the other.....I'm also between paint and Gel Coat after Jason’s success.....but there are lots of variables to doing it .... I want a colored hull, and of course not a stock color, I would think that gets a little tricky with Gel coat unless your going with a stock color ....to custom mix the gel coat to the same color for each batch/phase of the job seems like it would be challenging..I don’t want the hull to have five different shades of the same color ….. SO I should be simple and go white !!!! Paint ...you give the paint manufacturer a color swath of what you want and that’s what you get....

I've talked with someone about applying Gel coat and they said its best to be sprayed to get good results...or else your sanding the hull for awhile getting out the orange peel (spraying lays the gel coat on more evenly and not as bad an orange peel result) and bottom line when I asked about Rolling and Tipping gel coat I didn’t get the greatest of receptions…anyone tried to roll and tip Gel coat??? (i.e. you need a compressor and spray gun, you need to keep the spray gun clear and clean (I think I heard that from Jason) and I may be wrong but I seem to recall my buddy Brian saying , the gun isn’t your normal gun you pick up at the local tool warehouse variety, But then again the day I talked to him about this he had his head in a mold all morning [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) ….The nice thing is you sand, compound and buff till you get the desired finish….How much sanding …… depends on how well the Gel coat went on

EBEACH ...You’ve stirred my interest… is that $4 sprayer appropriate to spray an entire boat? .....
I've finally tried roll and tip paint(on a panel I'm not going to use anymore) and it works, but talk to me after I start doing some real big surfaces…..Ummm ….Fellow-Ship ….feel like coming up north for a few days [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] (I hope I get the same result on the hull!!!)

Gel coat will require maintenance.... Waxing and at some point compounding to keep up the lusted that is seen after its first applied ... the paints are said to be self maintaining (although I have seen a polishing product for use on Awlgrip finishes)

Repairing scratches and the sort....matching gel coat color is an art...guys around here get big bucks to fix chips in glass .... but the end result is flawless.....Paints (well some of them at least) are more easy to repair, sand and buff up to match the surrounding surfaces (so I've been told by several painters in my search for a finish) I have heard that some Awlgrip colors (and I would think this applies to all paints) can be difficult to match due to color lot changes....some colors match easier than others

The thing that really has my attention is that very few yards offer Gel coat and everyone offers paint...small repairs with gel coat are fine ...whole boats, at least where I've been, doesn’t seem to be an option....LOTS OF LABOR …..EQUAL BIG BIG BUCKS

The hull I might consider Gel coating ….... with the big flat surfaces and lots of power tools…. but getting the color I want has me concerned .... Truthfully I wouldn’t want to sand the inside of my boat to the degree of getting the mirror finish with all the corners and edges and planked deck etc etc……. talk about labor ….yikes !!!!!

Ok so now we need the GURU of GEL coating to speak…..OH TRAYDER !!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ February 05, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Scott ]

[Scott]

Ummmmm.......OK... SO I totally missed your post some how.....

I GUESS I'M SNIFFIN' TO MUCH POLY-RESIN [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Finster]

Anyone ever use that interlux interspray 800? I shot a boat once with that and it came out real nice, tough as nails. Not quite imron, but a hell of a lot safer.

[Scott]

Finster....I've seen two boats sprayed with it .... AWESOME LOOKING FINISH .....BUT.. a yard that used both Interlux and Awlgrip said Awlgrip was the way to go ..... for reasons not explained to me....

I have heard that Interspray is easy to roll and easy to repair and get real good results